More on WD40 and G96

[Michael Koblic]

I thought today I would test the cleaning qualities of both WD40 and G96.

I found some really grimy, rusty garden shears. I applied some copper (from
a wire) to both blades and some lead (fishing weight) by rubbing it on
really hard. Then I sprayed one blade with WD40, the other with G96. I left
them for 1 minute, then scrubbed with a bronze brush, plastic steel wool and
a cloth. I tried the same on the reverse side in reverse order. I repeated
the whole procedure twice.

Results:
1) The copper and lead came off with both agents very quickly when using the
brush. They would not come off just using the cloth. I really did not see a
significant difference between the two.
2) There was a slight tendency to remove more rust with G96.

From the previous plastic tray-and-washer test:

1) Both agents evaporated after about 3 days leaving a layer of oil which
persists over a week. The oil left behind by the WD40 seems to have higher
viscosity as judged by the washer sticking to the tray.

Discussion:

1) The obvious flaws of the shear test are numerous. It would have been nice
to perform the test in a "double blind" fashion. But that would mean
involving other people and possible comments on my sanity vis-a-vis wasting
my time with this stuff.
2) Although every effort was made to treat both shear blades the same, there
is no guarantee that the degree of rusting and dirt was the same on both.
3) Both WD40 and G96 are efficient in removing lead residue and copper.
There seems to be a marginal benefit for the G96 where rust is involved, but
see (2)
4) The oil in WD40 appears more viscous than in G96. The alternative
explanation is just that there is more of it per volume of spray or that I
just failed to apply equal amounts of the product to both areas. This
finding may be relevant to gun use: the more viscous oil may impede smooth
working of small gun parts.
5) The popular belief that WD40 dries out completely should be seriously
doubted.

For my part, I shall avoid using WD40 on my guns in future because of the
viscosity issue. It would be interesting to try some of the newer similar
products such as Hoppe's Elite in the same fashion. they are, however,
hellishly expensive.

[s***@seatraveler.com]

Post by Michael Koblic
I thought today I would test the cleaning qualities of both WD40 and G96.
I found some really grimy, rusty garden shears. I applied some copper (from
a wire) to both blades and some lead (fishing weight) by rubbing it on
really hard. Then I sprayed one blade with WD40, the other with G96. I left
them for 1 minute, then scrubbed with a bronze brush, plastic steel wool and
a cloth. I tried the same on the reverse side in reverse order. I repeated
the whole procedure twice.
1) The copper and lead came off with both agents very quickly when using the
brush. They would not come off just using the cloth. I really did not see a
significant difference between the two.
2) There was a slight tendency to remove more rust with G96.

Sounds as if your test, albeit non-laboratory standard, was good
enough for our purposes here, and your results interesting.

Post by Michael Koblic
1) Both agents evaporated after about 3 days leaving a layer of oil which
persists over a week. The oil left behind by the WD40 seems to have higher
viscosity as judged by the washer sticking to the tray.

But what about the taste?

I'll try your same methods using some of the more exotic lubes/
cleaners such as Tuff-Glide, Tuf-Cloth, straight PTFE in a carrier,
etc., and see what happens. But then I'm shipping it all off to you
for the taste test just because you forgot this time!

Steve Kramer
"PhotoEnvisions" Freelance Photography
Chiang Mai, Thailand
http://www.photoenvisions.com

[Zarky Zork]

I've always heard stay away from WD40... very gummy.. dirt and filth tends
to stick to it. I remember a bicycling friend of mine saying never never
use it in gears and chains because it will pick up so much road dirt that
it'll screw up all the bearings.

[crquack]

Post by Zarky Zork
I've always heard stay away from WD40... very gummy.. dirt and filth tends
to stick to it. I remember a bicycling friend of mine saying never never
use it in gears and chains because it will pick up so much road dirt that
it'll screw up all the bearings.

I learned something very important today: Apparently the WD40
penetrates gun cartridges and kills primers. It is the first time I
heard this but there seem to be quite a few people who fired duds as a
result. This seems the main reason many people avoid using it.

Maybe it does not affect the Berdan primers so Ceska Zbrojovka
continues to recommend it for their VZs. But why take the chance?

BTW, it tastes like chicken...

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

[Thomas Reynolds]

Post by crquack

Post by Zarky Zork
I've always heard stay away from WD40... very gummy.. dirt and filth tends
to stick to it. I remember a bicycling friend of mine saying never never
use it in gears and chains because it will pick up so much road dirt that
it'll screw up all the bearings.

I learned something very important today: Apparently the WD40
penetrates gun cartridges and kills primers. It is the first time I
heard this but there seem to be quite a few people who fired duds as a
result. This seems the main reason many people avoid using it.
Maybe it does not affect the Berdan primers so Ceska Zbrojovka
continues to recommend it for their VZs. But why take the chance?
BTW, it tastes like chicken...
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

More like an urban legend than a fact. In the guns news group many have
tested that legend by putting rounds in containers full of WD-40 and then
taking them out days/weeks later and firing them successfully. 30 years ago
all the gun rags were saying if you cleaned your magazines with it you would
not be able to fire the rounds loaded in the magazine due to it killing all
the primers. Guys who sell oil in 2 oz. units for $10-$15 really hate the
ubiquitous stuff. I have used it on guns for years without trouble.

[crquack]

Post by Thomas Reynolds

Post by crquack

Post by Zarky Zork
I've always heard stay away from WD40... very gummy.. dirt and filth tends
to stick to it. I remember a bicycling friend of mine saying never never
use it in gears and chains because it will pick up so much road dirt that
it'll screw up all the bearings.

I learned something very important today: Apparently the WD40
penetrates gun cartridges and kills primers. It is the first time I
heard this but there seem to be quite a few people who fired duds as a
result. This seems the main reason many people avoid using it.
Maybe it does not affect the Berdan primers so Ceska Zbrojovka
continues to recommend it for their VZs. But why take the chance?
BTW, it tastes like chicken...
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

More like an urban legend than a fact. In the guns news group many have
tested that legend by putting rounds in containers full of WD-40 and then
taking them out days/weeks later and firing them successfully. 30 years ago
all the gun rags were saying if you cleaned your magazines with it you would
not be able to fire the rounds loaded in the magazine due to it killing all
the primers. Guys who sell oil in 2 oz. units for $10-$15 really hate the
ubiquitous stuff. I have used it on guns for years without trouble.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

This is interesting! Do you happen to have any references? In truth, I
cannot think of a reason why WD40 would kill the primers and not all
the other aerosol preparations, G96 or Elite included.

I see another bench test coming...

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

[a***@XX.com]

Post by crquack
This is interesting! Do you happen to have any references? In
truth, I cannot think of a reason why WD40 would kill the primers
and not all the other aerosol preparations...
I see another bench test coming...
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Cool. :)

Anyone else notice WD-40's smell changed sometime back in the 80's?

As far as primers go... I pulled the trigger on a whole pile of 375
H&H Magnums in a pre-64 Win-70 one afternoon and about 1/3 of them
didn't go off. The two guys offering me the free shooting claimed
the shells got WD-40ed. (early 80's between Ray Jct and Kearney AZ)

Did you know you can feel the gun twist slighlty when shooting a
Win-70 chammered for 375 H&H? :) I mentioned it to them and they
said they were hoping I'd notice that. :)

454 Win is supposed to be really "twisty". :)

Alvin in AZ

[Robert Scott]

Post by a***@XX.com

Post by crquack
This is interesting! Do you happen to have any references? In
truth, I cannot think of a reason why WD40 would kill the primers
and not all the other aerosol preparations...
I see another bench test coming...
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Cool. :)
Anyone else notice WD-40's smell changed sometime back in the 80's?
As far as primers go... I pulled the trigger on a whole pile of 375
H&H Magnums in a pre-64 Win-70 one afternoon and about 1/3 of them
didn't go off. The two guys offering me the free shooting claimed
the shells got WD-40ed. (early 80's between Ray Jct and Kearney AZ)
Did you know you can feel the gun twist slighlty when shooting a
Win-70 chammered for 375 H&H? :) I mentioned it to them and they
said they were hoping I'd notice that. :)
454 Win is supposed to be really "twisty". :)

Heck... even the .45ACP does a little hip twist.

When I think about what rifle bullets go through during that initial
acceleation (rotation as well as forward movement) I always wonder how they
can even stay in one piece.

Stay sharp,
desmobob

[Chas]

Post by a***@XX.com
Did you know you can feel the gun twist slighlty when shooting a
Win-70 chammered for 375 H&H? :) I mentioned it to them and they
said they were hoping I'd notice that. :)
454 Win is supposed to be really "twisty". :)

Sure- you can feel a 45-70 twist when it launches that pumpkinball; so will
a Paradox shotgun-slug.

Chas

[P T]

Post by Zarky Zork
I remember a bicycling friend of mine
saying never never use it [WD40]
in gears and chains because it
will pick up so much road dirt that
it'll screw up all the bearings.

For a typical bicyclist who rides less than say 200 miles a year, WD40
is fine. I've ridden behind bikers on the path where you could hear the
"squeak-squeak" of their rusty chains. Are you saying WD40 would be a
poor choice for them? For purists, there are better things to lube a
chain, but for many average people, WD40 is adequate, and far better
than nothing. Perhaps WD40 attracts dirt, but short of using melted
paraffin, what lubricant will not attract dirt?

I once read a post in a motorcycle group from a person who used WD40 on
a motorcycle chain. Despite everyone's horror, he said he sprayed his
chain every 300 miles or so, and got good longevity from his chains.

[Robert Scott]

Post by P T

Post by Zarky Zork
I remember a bicycling friend of mine
saying never never use it [WD40]
in gears and chains because it
will pick up so much road dirt that
it'll screw up all the bearings.

For a typical bicyclist who rides less than say 200 miles a year, WD40
is fine. I've ridden behind bikers on the path where you could hear the
"squeak-squeak" of their rusty chains. Are you saying WD40 would be a
poor choice for them? For purists, there are better things to lube a
chain, but for many average people, WD40 is adequate, and far better
than nothing.

Good point... most people that would use WD-40 instead of proper products
for the particular job at hand are probably: 1) not using the type of
high-end equipment where it would matter much, and 2) are experiencing an
improvement over not using anything at all. No sense getting excited about
it, I figure.

Stay sharp,
desmobob

[Thomas Reynolds]

Post by Robert Scott

Post by P T

Post by Zarky Zork
I remember a bicycling friend of mine
saying never never use it [WD40]
in gears and chains because it
will pick up so much road dirt that
it'll screw up all the bearings.

For a typical bicyclist who rides less than say 200 miles a year, WD40
is fine. I've ridden behind bikers on the path where you could hear the
"squeak-squeak" of their rusty chains. Are you saying WD40 would be a
poor choice for them? For purists, there are better things to lube a
chain, but for many average people, WD40 is adequate, and far better
than nothing.

Good point... most people that would use WD-40 instead of proper products
for the particular job at hand are probably: 1) not using the type of
high-end equipment where it would matter much, and 2) are experiencing an
improvement over not using anything at all. No sense getting excited
about it, I figure.
Stay sharp,
desmobob

Well, you can always take the dip stick out of the car's engine for a drop
of "lubricant" in a pinch, but there is a right way and a wrong way to do
things. WD-40 on a bicycle chain is the wrong way. There are a number of
lubricants specifically designed for bike chains. They should be applied to
the inner surface of the chain since the outer surface is dirty from front
wheel roadspray and you don't want the grit to be carried into the bushings.

[a***@XX.com]

Post by Thomas Reynolds

Post by Robert Scott

Post by P T
For a typical bicyclist who rides less than say 200 miles a
year, WD40 is fine. I've ridden behind bikers on the path where
you could hear the "squeak-squeak" of their rusty chains. Are
you saying WD40 would be a poor choice for them? For purists,
there are better things to lube a chain, but for many average
people, WD40 is adequate, and far better than nothing.

Good point... most people that would use WD-40 instead of
proper products for the particular job at hand are probably: 1)
not using the type of high-end equipment where it would matter
much, and 2) are experiencing an improvement over not using
anything at all. No sense getting excited about it, I figure.
desmobob

Well, you can always take the dip stick out of the car's engine
for a drop of "lubricant" in a pinch, but there is a right way and
a wrong way to do things. WD-40 on a bicycle chain is the wrong
way. There are a number of lubricants specifically designed for
bike chains. They should be applied to the inner surface of the
chain since the outer surface is dirty from front wheel roadspray
and you don't want the grit to be carried into the bushings.

Oooo... there's the-bad-S-word! :/

Should. ;)

Explained that to my brother one day about what sorts of trouble has
been caused by bureaucrats implementing "should" into our lives
through laws. Let alone gramma's on the jury in insurance claims.

It was pretty cool, within an hour he started a rant and the S word
popped out and he quickly realized what a bunch of crap he was
thinking, without me having to say a word. He handled it all by
himself. :)

So.... DesmoBob's got it right, in my opinion.

YMMV depending on what you own.

I don't even want to own a bicycle that I can't use WD-Dummy and a
little left over Mobil-1 to oil the chain with.

------------------

The trouble I've had with WD-40 is wiping it off while wet. (almost
30 years ago) That leaves way too little oil when the Stoddard's
solvent evaporates and acts like it was pure stoddard's solvent in
those cases. If you left the whole drippy business set there, then
it leaves that gummy oily stuff behind.

My collection of old used power hacksaw blades have been given that
treatment (20 years ago) and haven't rusted -any- more than they
originally did.

Alvin in AZ

[Thomas Reynolds]

Post by a***@XX.com

Post by Thomas Reynolds

Post by Robert Scott

Post by P T
For a typical bicyclist who rides less than say 200 miles a
year, WD40 is fine. I've ridden behind bikers on the path where
you could hear the "squeak-squeak" of their rusty chains. Are
you saying WD40 would be a poor choice for them? For purists,
there are better things to lube a chain, but for many average
people, WD40 is adequate, and far better than nothing.

Good point... most people that would use WD-40 instead of
proper products for the particular job at hand are probably: 1)
not using the type of high-end equipment where it would matter
much, and 2) are experiencing an improvement over not using
anything at all. No sense getting excited about it, I figure.
desmobob

Well, you can always take the dip stick out of the car's engine
for a drop of "lubricant" in a pinch, but there is a right way and
a wrong way to do things. WD-40 on a bicycle chain is the wrong
way. There are a number of lubricants specifically designed for
bike chains. They should be applied to the inner surface of the
chain since the outer surface is dirty from front wheel roadspray
and you don't want the grit to be carried into the bushings.

Oooo... there's the-bad-S-word! :/
Should. ;)
Explained that to my brother one day about what sorts of trouble has
been caused by bureaucrats implementing "should" into our lives
through laws. Let alone gramma's on the jury in insurance claims.
It was pretty cool, within an hour he started a rant and the S word
popped out and he quickly realized what a bunch of crap he was
thinking, without me having to say a word. He handled it all by
himself. :)
So.... DesmoBob's got it right, in my opinion.
YMMV depending on what you own.
I don't even want to own a bicycle that I can't use WD-Dummy and a
little left over Mobil-1 to oil the chain with.
------------------
The trouble I've had with WD-40 is wiping it off while wet. (almost
30 years ago) That leaves way too little oil when the Stoddard's
solvent evaporates and acts like it was pure stoddard's solvent in
those cases. If you left the whole drippy business set there, then
it leaves that gummy oily stuff behind.
My collection of old used power hacksaw blades have been given that
treatment (20 years ago) and haven't rusted -any- more than they
originally did.
Alvin in AZ

Well, I love WD-40 and probably have a half dozen cans around the house. I
use it on all sorts of things. However, I know when it is not the best
choice as with the chain for a motorcycle or bicycle or the garage door
opener chain. I do not put it in my car for engine oil either. I will use
anything, including medical petroleum jelly, for a lubricant in an
"emergency," but it is always better to use the best product for a given
purpose. WD-40 sells 3-in-1 oil, for example, which would seem to indicate
even they know WD-40 is not the best lubricant for everything. They also
made a heavy lubricant for a short period of time which was designed for
heavy machinery and industrial chains, but gave it up due to slow sales.

[a***@XX.com]

Post by Thomas Reynolds
Well, I love WD-40 and probably have a half dozen cans around the
house. I use it on all sorts of things. However, I know when it
is not the best choice as with the chain for a motorcycle or
bicycle or the garage door opener chain.

You like the dangged stuff better than I do. ;)

Before newsgroups I thought of WD-40 as kerosene in a spray can.
Now I think of it as Stoddard's solvent in a can. :)

On our dirtbike (motorcycle) chains the "common wisdom" back-when
was to pour 30wt motor oil on them so that they were soaked and
drippy.

Still went through the chains and sprockets like crazy anyway. :/

Alvin in AZ

[J D Craggs]

Post by a***@XX.com
On our dirtbike (motorcycle) chains the "common wisdom" back-when
was to pour 30wt motor oil on them so that they were soaked and
drippy.
Still went through the chains and sprockets like crazy anyway. :/
Alvin in AZ

Years back I used to ride cyclo-cross and opinion was pretty evenly
divided between running chains dry and smothering them with whatever
special mix the rider considered beneficial.

I used motorbike lube on mine, the stuff you melt and let the chain
soak in for a while. I was convinced it helped in muddy conditions,
believing that all the stuff soaked into the inner surfaces of the
little rollers etc kept the mud and crud out for the two hours or so
of cyling and running.

Others were convinced the thick greasy stuff attracted dirt and held
it in place. I would agree when riding in sandy and dusty conditions.
On a bicycle with derallieur gears there's not a lot of space between
the various cogs in the block and crud soon builds up. Really funny
to see a chain slipping , barely gripping the tips of teeth full of
gungy stuff.

One guy with more money than sense just fitted a new chain for every
day's racing and ran it dry. He got through several gear blocks in a
season too ;-)

Others would take a cacky gritty chain and seal the cack into place
with the hot grease treatment. Daft sods cheerfully embracing the
worst of both worlds ;-)

At the end of the day you pays your money and you takes your choice.
Over the course of a season I think we all ended up spending pretty
much the same, and we all had broken chains on occasion.

Gyppo

[Knives.com]

Raleigh went to the trouble of making fully enclosed chain guards for their
bikes in the old days. Its the only permanent solution.

Daithi

Post by J D Craggs

Post by a***@XX.com
On our dirtbike (motorcycle) chains the "common wisdom" back-when
was to pour 30wt motor oil on them so that they were soaked and
drippy.
Still went through the chains and sprockets like crazy anyway. :/
Alvin in AZ

Years back I used to ride cyclo-cross and opinion was pretty evenly
divided between running chains dry and smothering them with whatever
special mix the rider considered beneficial.
I used motorbike lube on mine, the stuff you melt and let the chain
soak in for a while. I was convinced it helped in muddy conditions,
believing that all the stuff soaked into the inner surfaces of the
little rollers etc kept the mud and crud out for the two hours or so
of cyling and running.
Others were convinced the thick greasy stuff attracted dirt and held
it in place. I would agree when riding in sandy and dusty conditions.
On a bicycle with derallieur gears there's not a lot of space between
the various cogs in the block and crud soon builds up. Really funny
to see a chain slipping , barely gripping the tips of teeth full of
gungy stuff.
One guy with more money than sense just fitted a new chain for every
day's racing and ran it dry. He got through several gear blocks in a
season too ;-)
Others would take a cacky gritty chain and seal the cack into place
with the hot grease treatment. Daft sods cheerfully embracing the
worst of both worlds ;-)
At the end of the day you pays your money and you takes your choice.
Over the course of a season I think we all ended up spending pretty
much the same, and we all had broken chains on occasion.
Gyppo

[J D Craggs]

Post by Knives.com
Raleigh went to the trouble of making fully enclosed chain guards for their
bikes in the old days. Its the only permanent solution.
Daithi

True enough ;-) An old neighbour of ours had a heavy old
upright bicycle fitted with a full oilbath chaincase. He bought it
when he started work at 14 and was still using it for work when he
retired at 65. He insisted it was still running the original chain.
Mind you, this was a man (a pattern-maker) who scrupulously looked
after every tool in his collection, so it's quite possible.

Gyppo

[Robert Scott]

Post by J D Craggs
Years back I used to ride cyclo-cross and opinion was pretty evenly
divided between running chains dry and smothering them with whatever
special mix the rider considered beneficial.
I used motorbike lube on mine, the stuff you melt and let the chain
soak in for a while. I was convinced it helped in muddy conditions,
believing that all the stuff soaked into the inner surfaces of the
little rollers etc kept the mud and crud out for the two hours or so
of cyling and running.
Others were convinced the thick greasy stuff attracted dirt and held
it in place. I would agree when riding in sandy and dusty conditions.
On a bicycle with derallieur gears there's not a lot of space between
the various cogs in the block and crud soon builds up. Really funny
to see a chain slipping , barely gripping the tips of teeth full of
gungy stuff.
One guy with more money than sense just fitted a new chain for every
day's racing and ran it dry. He got through several gear blocks in a
season too ;-)
Others would take a cacky gritty chain and seal the cack into place
with the hot grease treatment. Daft sods cheerfully embracing the
worst of both worlds ;-)
At the end of the day you pays your money and you takes your choice.
Over the course of a season I think we all ended up spending pretty
much the same, and we all had broken chains on occasion.

Cyclocross is a heck of a contest; not for wimps! I have a healthy respect
for the participants of that sport. We Americans are finally getting the
hang of it and have a lad involved (Jonathan Page) who is capable of winning
a world title.

I have an Italian cyclocross bike (Bianchi "Axis"; frame made in Taiwan,
components mostly made in Japan -- what's really Italian about it?) and used
one of the modern chain lubes that go on thick, milky and wet and dries to a
waxy solid. This worked well but the chain seemed to stay pretty dirty. I
switched to a thinner, clear liquid lube that tends to flush out more dirt
as it's applied, then dries to a non-sticky finish. But mind you, my
cyclocross bike is used as a commuter. I doubt I'd last three laps in a
'cross race!

I'm wondering why the bicycle folks haven't embraced the current motorcycle
chain technology where the internals are greased and then sealed with
O-rings (actually X-shaped rings that provide a double seal). It keeps the
dirt out and the lube in. The chains last a long time. Now that I think
about it, I guess it's because it's so critical to make bicycle chains
narrower and narrower (to allow for more gears in the rear gear cluster; my
road bike has ten!)

This would work in a knife pivot too, right?

Stay sharp,
desmobob

[J D Craggs]

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:53:01 GMT, "Robert Scott"

Post by Robert Scott
Cyclocross is a heck of a contest; not for wimps! I have a healthy respect
for the participants of that sport. We Americans are finally getting the
hang of it and have a lad involved (Jonathan Page) who is capable of winning
a world title.

When you're young and fit (and perhaps a little crazy) it
doesn't seem so hard ;-)

Post by Robert Scott
I'm wondering why the bicycle folks haven't embraced the current motorcycle
chain technology where the internals are greased and then sealed with
O-rings (actually X-shaped rings that provide a double seal). It keeps the
dirt out and the lube in. The chains last a long time. Now that I think
about it, I guess it's because it's so critical to make bicycle chains
narrower and narrower (to allow for more gears in the rear gear cluster; my
road bike has ten!)

I think you're right about the chain width. When using a
rivet punch.chain-breaker to make & break continuous chain the pin
only has to be a little bit off to one side and it fouls on the
derailing cage. Sometimes as little as a quarter turn of the screw
part is enough to put it right.

Post by Robert Scott
This would work in a knife pivot too, right?

An 'O' ringed knife pivot sounds good, but I bet it would
push up the price. The largest possible pin for a bigger bearing
surface is probably the cheapest and best Lo-Tech route to take. I
have a small and nameless bottle of some graphite based airgun lube
that I use. I tried chain lube but felt it attracted too much pocket
fluff/grit. But to be fair, if it wasn't for our stupid UK knife laws
I would probably never have owned a folder. I much prefer a fixed
blade.

Gyppo

[deowll]

Post by J D Craggs
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:53:01 GMT, "Robert Scott"

Post by Robert Scott
Cyclocross is a heck of a contest; not for wimps! I have a healthy respect
for the participants of that sport. We Americans are finally getting the
hang of it and have a lad involved (Jonathan Page) who is capable of winning
a world title.

When you're young and fit (and perhaps a little crazy) it
doesn't seem so hard ;-)

Post by Robert Scott
I'm wondering why the bicycle folks haven't embraced the current motorcycle
chain technology where the internals are greased and then sealed with
O-rings (actually X-shaped rings that provide a double seal). It keeps the
dirt out and the lube in. The chains last a long time. Now that I think
about it, I guess it's because it's so critical to make bicycle chains
narrower and narrower (to allow for more gears in the rear gear cluster; my
road bike has ten!)

I think you're right about the chain width. When using a
rivet punch.chain-breaker to make & break continuous chain the pin
only has to be a little bit off to one side and it fouls on the
derailing cage. Sometimes as little as a quarter turn of the screw
part is enough to put it right.

Post by Robert Scott
This would work in a knife pivot too, right?

An 'O' ringed knife pivot sounds good, but I bet it would
push up the price. The largest possible pin for a bigger bearing
surface is probably the cheapest and best Lo-Tech route to take. I
have a small and nameless bottle of some graphite based airgun lube
that I use. I tried chain lube but felt it attracted too much pocket
fluff/grit. But to be fair, if it wasn't for our stupid UK knife laws
I would probably never have owned a folder. I much prefer a fixed
blade.
Gyppo

A nice little ripper with a black handle?

[J D Craggs]

Post by deowll

Post by J D Craggs
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:53:01 GMT, "Robert Scott"
But to be fair, if it wasn't for our stupid UK knife laws
I would probably never have owned a folder. I much prefer a fixed
blade.
Gyppo

A nice little ripper with a black handle?

Sounds about right ;-) Maybe a black blade too...

Or a really traditional 'sheath knife' with a stacked
leather hilt. I suspect there's something about your first knife
which always calls you back ;-)

Gyppo

[s***@seatraveler.com]

Post by J D Craggs
I suspect there's something about your first knife
which always calls you back ;-)
Gyppo

'Sigh.......'



Steve Kramer
"PhotoEnvisions" Freelance Photography
Chiang Mai, Thailand
http://www.photoenvisions.com

[deowll]

Post by J D Craggs

Post by deowll

Post by J D Craggs
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:53:01 GMT, "Robert Scott"
But to be fair, if it wasn't for our stupid UK knife laws
I would probably never have owned a folder. I much prefer a fixed
blade.
Gyppo

A nice little ripper with a black handle?

Sounds about right ;-) Maybe a black blade too...
Or a really traditional 'sheath knife' with a stacked
leather hilt. I suspect there's something about your first knife
which always calls you back ;-)
Gyppo

Something we saw when we were young.

[Robert Scott]

Post by a***@XX.com

Post by Thomas Reynolds

Post by Robert Scott

Post by P T
For a typical bicyclist who rides less than say 200 miles a
year, WD40 is fine. I've ridden behind bikers on the path where
you could hear the "squeak-squeak" of their rusty chains. Are
you saying WD40 would be a poor choice for them? For purists,
there are better things to lube a chain, but for many average
people, WD40 is adequate, and far better than nothing.

Good point... most people that would use WD-40 instead of
proper products for the particular job at hand are probably: 1)
not using the type of high-end equipment where it would matter
much, and 2) are experiencing an improvement over not using
anything at all. No sense getting excited about it, I figure.
desmobob

Well, you can always take the dip stick out of the car's engine
for a drop of "lubricant" in a pinch, but there is a right way and
a wrong way to do things. WD-40 on a bicycle chain is the wrong
way. There are a number of lubricants specifically designed for
bike chains. They should be applied to the inner surface of the
chain since the outer surface is dirty from front wheel roadspray
and you don't want the grit to be carried into the bushings.

Oooo... there's the-bad-S-word! :/
Should. ;)
Explained that to my brother one day about what sorts of trouble has
been caused by bureaucrats implementing "should" into our lives
through laws. Let alone gramma's on the jury in insurance claims.
It was pretty cool, within an hour he started a rant and the S word
popped out and he quickly realized what a bunch of crap he was
thinking, without me having to say a word. He handled it all by
himself. :)
So.... DesmoBob's got it right, in my opinion.
YMMV depending on what you own.
I don't even want to own a bicycle that I can't use WD-Dummy and a
little left over Mobil-1 to oil the chain with.

If you frequent web forums or newsgroups centered around guns, knives,
motorcycles, bicycles, tools, etc., you will notice one thing: Whenever
someone so much as MENTIONS the dreaded WD product, panties immediately
bunch up tightly and the arguing starts. I don't care if someone likes the
taste of it in their coffee or have used it exclusively on their Ferrari's
door hinges for over thirty years. I'm getting kind of sick of hearing
people argue about it! :-)

I don't think there's many subjects that can get a bunch of men as fired up.
Why is that?

Stay sharp,
desmobob

[J Buck]

desmobob wrote: <If you frequent web forums or newsgroups centered
around guns, knives, motorcycles, bicycles, tools, etc., you will notice
one thing: Whenever someone so much as MENTIONS the dreaded WD product,
panties immediately bunch up tightly and the arguing starts. I don't
care if someone likes the taste of it in their coffee or have used it
exclusively on their Ferrari's door hinges for over thirty years. I'm
getting kind of sick of hearing people argue about it! :-)
I don't think there's many subjects that can get a bunch of men as fired
up. Why is that?>

LoL I was just about to write the same thing when I thought 'I better
read the rest of this thread---someone else will raise the point'.
(Although I get a kick out of these discussions; not tired of them yet)

[deowll]

Post by Zarky Zork
I remember a bicycling friend of mine
saying never never use it [WD40]
in gears and chains because it
will pick up so much road dirt that
it'll screw up all the bearings.

For a typical bicyclist who rides less than say 200 miles a year, WD40
is fine. I've ridden behind bikers on the path where you could hear the
"squeak-squeak" of their rusty chains. Are you saying WD40 would be a
poor choice for them? For purists, there are better things to lube a
chain, but for many average people, WD40 is adequate, and far better
than nothing. Perhaps WD40 attracts dirt, but short of using melted
paraffin, what lubricant will not attract dirt?

I once read a post in a motorcycle group from a person who used WD40 on
a motorcycle chain. Despite everyone's horror, he said he sprayed his
chain every 300 miles or so, and got good longevity from his chains.


***********************************

Deowll below

I like 3-IN-ONE and Vaseline.

Alvin likes lard.

Lots of stuff works.

Motor oil, cooking oil, mineral oil


I like the way WD40 penetrates and I don't like the way it seems to vanish
and the squeak comes back.

[s***@seatraveler.com]

Post by deowll
I like the way WD40 penetrates and I don't like the way it seems to vanish
and the squeak comes back.

Why not put a drop or two of good grade oil down first, then a quick
spray of WD40 to thin it and act as a carrier and penetant for the
good stuff as well as its own?

Steve Kramer
"PhotoEnvisions" Freelance Photography
Chiang Mai, Thailand
http://www.photoenvisions.com

[Knives.com]

If you do it the other way around(WD first then heavy) the WD will evaporate
and the heavy stuff will move in to fill the gap.

Daithi

Post by s***@seatraveler.com

Post by deowll
I like the way WD40 penetrates and I don't like the way it seems to vanish
and the squeak comes back.

Why not put a drop or two of good grade oil down first, then a quick
spray of WD40 to thin it and act as a carrier and penetant for the
good stuff as well as its own?
Steve Kramer
"PhotoEnvisions" Freelance Photography
Chiang Mai, Thailand
http://www.photoenvisions.com

[deowll]

Post by s***@seatraveler.com

Post by deowll
I like the way WD40 penetrates and I don't like the way it seems to vanish
and the squeak comes back.

Why not put a drop or two of good grade oil down first, then a quick
spray of WD40 to thin it and act as a carrier and penetant for the
good stuff as well as its own?

You are using logic and reason. Are you trying to change us or something?

Sounds like a pretty good idea.

Post by s***@seatraveler.com
Steve Kramer
"PhotoEnvisions" Freelance Photography
Chiang Mai, Thailand
http://www.photoenvisions.com

[s***@seatraveler.com]

Post by deowll

Post by s***@seatraveler.com

Post by deowll
I like the way WD40 penetrates and I don't like the way it seems to vanish
and the squeak comes back.

Why not put a drop or two of good grade oil down first, then a quick
spray of WD40 to thin it and act as a carrier and penetant for the
good stuff as well as its own?

You are using logic and reason. Are you trying to change us or something?

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their
use." - Galileo Galilei

(except when drinking.)

Post by deowll
Sounds like a pretty good idea.

Well of course! All of my ideas (that work) are good ideas. Why would
you ever think otherwise? ;o)

Steve Kramer
"PhotoEnvisions" Freelance Photography
Chiang Mai, Thailand
http://www.photoenvisions.com

[john]

Post by P T

Post by Zarky Zork
I remember a bicycling friend of mine
saying never never use it [WD40]
in gears and chains because it
will pick up so much road dirt that
it'll screw up all the bearings.

For a typical bicyclist who rides less than say 200 miles a year, WD40
is fine. I've ridden behind bikers on the path where you could hear the
"squeak-squeak" of their rusty chains. Are you saying WD40 would be a
poor choice for them? For purists, there are better things to lube a
chain, but for many average people, WD40 is adequate, and far better
than nothing. Perhaps WD40 attracts dirt, but short of using melted
paraffin, what lubricant will not attract dirt?
I once read a post in a motorcycle group from a person who used WD40 on
a motorcycle chain. Despite everyone's horror, he said he sprayed his
chain every 300 miles or so, and got good longevity from his chains.
is fine. I've ridden behind bikers on the path where you could hear the
"squeak-squeak" of their rusty chains. Are you saying WD40 would be a
poor choice for them? For purists, there are better things to lube a
chain, but for many average people, WD40 is adequate, and far better
than nothing. Perhaps WD40 attracts dirt, but short of using melted
paraffin, what lubricant will not attract dirt?
I once read a post in a motorcycle group from a person who used WD40 on
a motorcycle chain. Despite everyone's horror, he said he sprayed his
chain every 300 miles or so, and got good longevity from his chains.

Boeshield T-9 doesn't attract dirt to bicycle chains & gear, wears &
works great. There are probably better bike wax lubes, but I'm happy
enough w/ T-9 that I haven't experimented w/ other waxes. The general
conciseness is that T-9 is not good for wet conditions, but I don't
ride the rain. The wettest I get on purpose is crossing streams in
warm weather, & that's not very wet. I know from personal experience
that WD-40 doesn't last very long. TriFlo works great but attracts
dirt & is filthily. (About the same as 30wt. motor oil)
All the above info is from a great deal of experience ridding
bicycles, except I don't ride in the rain if I can help it. I leave
that to the Brits. North West riders, & B.C. riders.

Hope this help shed some light on the topic, John

[a***@XX.com]

john <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snipped good stuff>

Post by john
Hope this help shed some light on the topic, John

Yes, you added to the topic. :)
That's all a guy can expect to do, IMO.

Let's say a guy posts something completely wrong(?) and someone
else makes a case for the opposite. They -both- added to the
thread, in the end.

A thread is something we build together... good, bad or ugly. :)

Alvin in AZ's got the ugly part covered :/

[Justin]

Post by a***@XX.com
Let's say a guy posts something completely wrong(?) and someone
else makes a case for the opposite. They -both- added to the
thread, in the end.
A thread is something we build together...

OK. Who stole Alvin and substitued Plato?

Post by a***@XX.com
good, bad or ugly. :)

Now THIS would make a great movie title.....

Post by a***@XX.com
Alvin in AZ's got the ugly part covered :/

Covered? He's got it suuuuROUNDED!. That's why the rest of us can look
so great! Thanks, Al!

Justin

[MatthewK]

Post by john
All the above info is from a great deal of experience ridding
bicycles, except I don't ride in the rain if I can help it. I leave
that to the Brits. North West riders, & B.C. riders.
Hope this help shed some light on the topic, John

If I remember things right, Jobst Brandt reccomends chainsaw chain
lube. Specially formulated for a nasty hardworking chain enviroment.

matthew
ohio